for when Gentiles, who do not have the law, by nature do the things in the law, these, although not having the law, are a law to themselves, who show the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and between themselves their thoughts accusing or else excusing them Rom2:14-15
among whom also we all once conducted ourselves in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, just as the others. Eph2:3
In the Bible ‘Nature is ‘Physis, meaning: ‘The
Principle of Growth or the Nature of growth’.
Man DOES NOT have a ‘sinful nature’ (that’s a myth of theology)
rather he is subject to the ‘Nature of growth or by progression he either
becomes a Slave to his base fleshly desires or a Servant of Righteousness.
‘Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves Slaved to Obey, you are that one’s Slave whom you Obey, whether Sin to death or OBEDIENCE to Righteousness’ Rom6:16 So when the Gentiles do ‘by nature’ the things contained in the law or people who fulfill the desires of their flesh are ‘by nature children of wrath, the ancient writers understood that by the nature of growth (long habits, practices) they could either choose to serve good or evil. How did the Gentiles do the things contained in the law if the ‘Nature itself was sinful? It can’t be both ways, the nature can’t be corrupted and also be able to choose what’s right
Man is born with a Moral Conscience and Natural inclinations:
Yetzer Tou, Yetzer
Ra, into a body of ‘Flesh (SARX,
that which covers the bones) His ‘flesh cannot be ‘sinful of itself without his
Natural passions and desires being presented (or indulged) to the slavery of
sin. THIS requires a CHOICE of his Will, each one is
tempted when drawn away by his own DESIRES and enticed, then when
desire has conceived ‘a sinful passion,’ it gives birth to
sin and when the sin is full grown is brings forth death (to his spirit)
Js1:14-15. The FLESH has no Desires lurking within it, only tissue
and sinew, its only when the MIND conceives a DESIRE to indulge
the flesh (mortal body) that Sin is born. Desire can either be a Natural yearning
as for food to survive, rest to recuperate, or it can be a LUST
(as in evil desires) for self-indulgence. The same Word (desire-lust) can
be translated either way in the Bible. As:
‘The lust of the flesh’ 1Jh2:16, or have a ‘Yearning desire to come see you’ 1Thes2:17
There is no DUAL Nature taught in the Bible, only a NATURE of Growth or long practiced habits inherited by tradition from our fathers. 1Pet1:18. Such a notion was introduced by the ancient Gnostics around the 4th Century, who believed that everything in the material world was corrupted or sinful and everything in the spiritual world was pure and incorruptible. Their greatest proponent Augustine blended these notions into Christian thought by miss-applying the constant mention of the word ‘Flesh (SARX) used in Scripture to a Latin term he invented called: concupiscence , by applying this to passages like Rom7:8 it turned the natural human desires able to choose between good and evil into something ‘Dwelling in the flesh prompting these evil desires by necessity to serve sin. So the KJV translators (who bought this fallacy) translated ‘Desire or Evil Desires’ Concupiscence three times in Rom7:8, 1Thes4:5, Col3:5. So instead of all manner of ‘evil desires being prompted by the law in Rom7:8, its all manner of concupiscence, implying a mysterious nature dwelling in the flesh; whereas ‘evil desires’ clearly indicate a choice has to made between evil and good.
Thus when Rom7:18 says: ‘I know that in me (in my flesh) nothing good dwells’, the vast majority of professing Christians over the last 1530 years THINK it means that their FLESH is corrupted with some kind of devilish malady that forces them to sin. Consequently the preachers teach them they are ‘BY NATURE children of wrath’ Eph2:3, meaning by the Very fact they are walking around in their mortal bodies of flesh they are one BIG Rotten Lump of Sin. This has been the central foundation of almost all so-called Christian theology longer than any of us have been alive. Within it are the bases for the Provision, Substitution, moral transfer and election.
Man, born in this ‘Depraved condition has no will or ability to produce Deeds Worthy of Repentance therefore God has to make a ‘Provision in Christ to ‘Save him in his sins and set him on the right course to eternal life, because Sin is NOT what he does its what he is. By simply understanding the Premise from which the ancient writers were teaching this horrible fallacy could be buried on the trash heap of history where it belongs. When Scriptures says: in the ‘flesh we cannot please God’ (Rom8:7-8) it means that in the ‘Passion and desires’ of the flesh given over to evil indulgences, we CANNOT please God! Scripture tells us to ‘Crucify our flesh with its passions and desires’ Gal6:15, Does that mean we should drive nails through our hands and feet and die on a Cross?! Of course not! It simply means we should ‘Put to death’ Col3:5, our sinful passions and rule over them in Christ.
We Serve God ‘in the flesh’ Gal2:20 I have been crucified with Christ; it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself for me We are not walking around in some mystical realm above the clouds. We are in our ‘Mortal bodies quickened by the Spirit (Rom8:11) and our evil passions and desires are Crucified in Christ by Repentance and faith Proven by Deeds. (2Cor7:10-11) The ‘Body of sin’ is done away with Rom6:6, meaning, NOT our Mortal Coil, BUT our evil passions that once were Slaves of Sin. Rom6:16-17. So the LIFE we Live (in the flesh) is by this faith (working by love and obedience to the truth) through Christ who has Saved us by the ‘Washing, Regeneration and Renewing of the Holy Spirit’ (Titus3:5) Thus sin no longer reigns in our ‘Mortal body. Rom6:12 because the flesh ‘has been with Crucified with Christ. (in repentance and faith Proven by Deeds!)
Our flesh and blood will not inherit the Kingdom 1Cor15:50, not because of sin dwelling inside us’, but because our mortality must put on immortality 1Cor15:50-53, our ‘body will see corruption in death, but because of Christ in us death will be swallowed up in Victory. In Adam we die (as mortals) a physical death, but in Christ our spirit lives on eternally. That’s why it says that the body is ‘Sown in corruption (meaning the corruption of the grave) but raised in incorruption, as a ‘spiritual body. (1Cor15:43-44) The fact that man dies physically has nothing to do with a ‘Nature dwelling in his flesh, it’s simply because he is created as a ‘Mortal being (after the likeness of Adam) and has a limited life-span.
Romans 7 is showing of the state of man given over to the evil desires of his flesh, struggling under conviction but refusing to ‘Crucify his sinful indulgence. The reason he is ‘carnal sold under sin’, is within his un-willingness to rule over it, not that something in his ‘flesh is hindering him from doing so. The answer to his dilemma is in the Baptism of Repentance Rom6:4-6, in which the evil desires are crucified with Christ and the body ‘given over to self-indulgence is done away with once and for all. Giving yourself over to the ‘Captivity of sin is ‘selling yourself for nothing Isa52:3, into the bondage of Slavery. This is the reason that ‘in the flesh’ (this awful state of bondage) we cannot not please God (Rom8:8) Until this ‘evil desire’ for self-indulgence is done away with in Repentance you can NEVER fulfill the Righteous requirements of the Law in Christ by walking in the Spirit and not the ‘flesh. Rom8:1-4.
The ‘turning from this state of bondage is our part, by making the Right Choice to rise up out of our Pig pens and come clean with the Father. The Process of Repentance (or godly sorrow) is designed to be our ‘self-cleaning humility in which we lay aside all filthiness of the flesh and spirit and receive with meekness the implanted Word that is able to save our soul, James1:21-22, the Spirit is present during this time convicting, leading and drawing us toward the Mercy Seat of Reconciliation, BUT He WILL NOT indwell us until the purging is finished and we are a Vessel FIT for the Master’s use. (2Tim2:21) Then the ‘washing, regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit can take place. Otherwise, as is virtually universal in professing Christians circles today, Salvation is a mythical Provision in which the ‘Evil Passions and desires’ of the flesh have full supremacy over every level of the Church. And the FEW of the FEW are ever likely to become ‘doers of the word instead of hearers only deceiving themselves’, until people learn to face up to their Personal Responsibility to Obey God, Do what is Right and find genuine Reconciliation at His Mercy Seat.
This will require a Diligence and Obedience beyond anything that is presently known among the dead, wretched, filthy rags professing Churches where human effort is forbidden; except to argue in favor of sin. (in that they put forth every effort!)
Had Cain made every effort to ‘Reason with God when told to Rule over it, he would have been recorded with his brother Able in Heb11:4 as ‘attaining witness his Deeds were Righteous by offering to God a more excellent sacrifice of obedience than hatred and murder.
Man is able to ‘Reason with God as a ‘scarlet sinner, still unregenerate in spirit. In his Natural state he still possesses a moral conscience able to discern the difference between right and wrong. From this premise God addresses him to ‘Come and make a conscience decision to Obey or rebel.
Reasoning together with God
Come now, and let us reason together, Says the Lord, Though your sins are like scarlet, They shall be as white as snow; Though they are red like crimson, They shall be as wool. If you are willing and obedient, You shall eat the good of the land; But if you refuse and rebel, You shall be devoured by the sword; For the mouth of the Lord has spoken. Isa1:18-20
Reasoning together with God requires an intellect that can comprehend logical thought. In the Hebrew sense (of figurative speech) Reasoning with God means, bringing something into the Sunshine to make it Clear and manifest. (literally defined: ‘prove, decide, Judge, rebuke, reprove, correct’) Sadly most Bible Pundit type preachers, pastors today won’t tell you any of this. They are firmly persuaded by the inability myths that man has no possibility of understanding the Mind of God until his ‘sinful nature’ (adamic nature, corrupted nature, carnal mind) is Regenerated by the Spirit in some miraculous manner in which God ‘Chooses, Calls and Rebirths him. Then he can ‘begin a renewing process, taught of the Spirit and will know by revelation what is truth vs error.
Most of them will base this assumption on passages out of John’s Gospel that State: ‘No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him’ Jh6:44, ‘Without Me you can do nothing’ Jh15:5, meaning in their ‘twisted understanding of God, that no one can Come to Him unless he is first ‘Called (or elected) and when this Call is issued you cannot resist. Of course this entirely negates the Free Will and ability of man to make a ‘reasonable Choice between Good and Evil, life or death when presented with opportunity to do so. The real Truth is God ‘DRAWS all people (Jh12:32) and gives EVERYONE the opportunity to Turn from their sins to Him. Therefore unless God has first issued this Call through His Son, by the Preaching of the Gospel, there would have been no occasion to which man could respond. So the obvious truth remains: ‘No one can come to Me unless the Father draws him!’ HOW could they? Without this initial Call (drawing) there would no occasion for us to respond and no reason to ‘do anything in Christ. (Nothing magic about it, pure common sense)
If man is incapable of understanding Divine Truth until his ‘supposed’ Adamic nature is regenerated WHY did the Prophets constantly warn him to Repent, Come Clean, Amend his ways, Turn and come ‘REASON with God? If God and man have no common ground from which they can communicate the basic fundamental truths of repentance and faith, ALL Preaching (since Moses) MUST be expunged and an apology issued from the heavens for asking man to do something he was wholly incapable of doing. The Scripture says it requires a ‘Willing and Obedient’ heart to reason with God. (1Chron28:9, Lk8:15) Those who Come to Him with in the honest sincerity of humility will find Mercy and reconciliation. THEN the ‘Washing, Regeneration and Renewing of the Holy Spirit will take place. (Titus3:5)
You MUST Draw near to God in your ‘Natural state, meaning as a living, breathing human being capable of rational thought able to make a sensible decision between right and wrong. It’s your Carnal mind given over to sinful self-indulgence that cannot discern anything spiritual. James 4:7-10 explains the Process:
Therefore submit to God. Resist the devil and he will flee from you. Draw near to God and He will draw near to you. Cleanse your hands, you sinners; and purify your hearts, you double-minded. Lament and mourn and weep! Let your laughter be turned to mourning and your joy to gloom. Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and He will lift you up.
The ‘Renewing of the mind begins when you empty it of all guile, deceit, uncleanness and double-minded motives. Presenting yourself as that ‘Living Sacrifice, acceptable unto the Lord, no longer Conform to your worldly ways, but TRANSFORMED in Christ (Rom12:1-2) Then you can begin to discern things from a ‘spiritual perspective instead of trying to comprehend God in the ‘Natural sense. The ‘Natural mind (human wisdom, intellect & understanding) cannot properly discern ‘spiritual matters. You must compare ‘spiritual things with spiritual’ (1Cor2:13-15) Since the Spirit speaks through the Scriptures, this means comparing Scripture with Scripture to arrive at proper understanding of God’s truth.
Man in his ‘Natural (and often times carnal) mind-set must comprehend God through a filter called: Systematic Theology, in which he can ‘formulate a System of intellectual thought that defines God in a manner of ‘fairness based on his Double-minded premise. This is how they arrive at their conclusions that a ‘Spirit filled, Born again person in Christ can be both: ‘Spiritual and Carnal, walk in darkness and light, produce good and bad fruit and sin and not die! So they will go about telling people that man is incapable of understanding the Mind of God in his ‘Natural, Carnal’ state, but then also convince him that he becomes ‘magically spiritual by ‘receiving Jesus and can now begin to sort out all the complicated and twisted notions contained in their Systems of theology. Once entangled by this snare he’s given over to the Wretched man, filthy rags profession and BLINDED to ALL things Spiritual. When all he really needed to do in the beginning is discard his ‘carnal self-indulgent notions and focus his mind on finding God, then he could discern ‘spiritual matters and come to Knowledge of the Truth. (1Tim2:4)
What has happened to the vast majority of professing mankind is they have fallen prey to these false theologies and have NEVER Submitted to God on HIS terms. They remain Separated from any genuine Spiritual discernment because they remain ‘DOUBLE-MINDED. They have everything that resembles religion, the charity, the wisdom of men, the intellectual ranting of their pundits, BUT NOTHING that resembles the Truth expressed in the pages of Scripture. The Word of God is said to be Living and Powerful, sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the division of the soul and spirit and of joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart. (Heb4:12) BUT to those who were ‘born (into a faith) under the Premise of inability, it’s merely ‘ink on a page. HOW can the WORD of God be alive in them if they are Disobeying it all the time? HOW can it sharply divide truth from error in their minds when they have never ‘cleansed themselves of all filthiness and overflow of wickedness and received with meekness the IMPLANTED Word that is able to save their souls (Js1:21) while they set and wait for God to do the cleaning for them; under the supposed premise that they were saved in their sinful state of carnality and lust?
As before the ‘double-mindedness’ remains, so such a person can ‘Receive nothing from God’ Js1:8. They have never ‘reasoned with God to begin with but rather rationalized with men. Many of them are puffed up in earthy wisdom and expounding their vain imaginings far and wide deceiving others. They like to appear as those possessing a ‘special anointing from the spirit, as though God is ‘showing them these deeper spiritual truths and if others wish to experience it they must also submit to this ‘spirit and be taught in the same manner. It seems that the common thread among these people is that they remain under the ‘spirit of error (age old theologies, teachings, invented doctrines, fallacies) and ‘believe that this mixture of clap-trap is Sound spiritual guidance.
They will seldom yield to the Word of God for instruction, reproof, correction and doctrine. Therefore (just as the scripture proclaims) ‘This Wisdom does not descend from above, but is earthly, sensual, demonic, self-seeking and confusing!’ (Js3:15, my paraphrase)
It sounds very harsh, but isn’t it Demonic to tell people that they cannot ‘Reason with God as a Natural living and breathing human being able to make a rational choice to diligently seek out His Mercy in Repentance? And to suppose that God must first ‘regenerate’ his mind (meaning send the Spirit to indwell!) while they remain still in rebellion double-minded and unpurified in heart, is Reversing the Process God has intended to Redeem him from the corruption of sin. These false assumptions are all based on theology NOT Truth! Man’s not born ‘dead in his sins, powerless to respond to God’s call, so morally depraved he can’t do anything right or acceptable in God’s sight!’ CARNAL men invented these concepts to absolve themselves of the responsibility to Seek out God and OBEY Him. They have deceived you into believing that man by rendering Simple Obedience to God’s Commands and DOING what He has said to do is trying to ‘Save himself and boast in God’s face that he has the ability within to follow Christ.
MOST of humanity is in a perpetual state of Bewilderment toward God because of these longstanding errors invented by men. They muddle through the religious disorder Mystified by the great swelling words of emptiness emanating from the platforms. The Simplicity that is in Christ has been thrown to the winds long ago. Hardened into a state of Carnality by their refusal to purify the minds they’re souls are made hallow and void of life. While they sit idly by waiting for God’s redemption to come the Voice of ‘Reason grows ever dimmer in their ears and the likelihood of OBEDIENCE fads away.